[Cheiron]

Uh... something has nagged me for a long time...

We have all seen those clips from especially Arab or African states where they have a big rally of maybe many thousand people... and they fire their kalashnikovs or whatever straight up into the sky to celebrate... right?

Now... erhm... I think it is live rounds they fire.. and ummm... what goes up has to come down according to the law of gravity... so...

What I want to know is... if you fire a rifle or whatever straight up how fatal is it when it comes down??... even if the bullet is small in weight and has less velocity coming down than when it got fired (I think max. velocity due to g-force and air friction is 280 km/h... correct me if wrong)... that thing is not exactly kosher to your head... and if you have a big crowd standing there covering a big area. those bullets come down on you.

I never understood it, can somebody enlighten me?
_________________
Cheiron
______________________________
"Any scientist with respect for himself should start
the day by rejecting his own pet hypotheses".
(Konrad Lorenz)

"Wir müssen wissen
Wir werden wissen"
(David Hilbert)

[Wicked innocence]

the other day son was watching mythbusters on tv, and they covered this. see if you can find the clip on youtube, to long for me to explain it

[Cheiron]

hummm... I can't find the clip..

well... I don't have a gun and don't want one, but if I had, maybe I could try it out in back yard (better yet far away from other people), aligning it straight up on a day with no wind.... and see what happens... and I think I would put a frying pan or something on top of my head with a little cushion under it...hehe
_________________
Cheiron
______________________________
"Any scientist with respect for himself should start
the day by rejecting his own pet hypotheses".
(Konrad Lorenz)

"Wir müssen wissen
Wir werden wissen"
(David Hilbert)

[Wicked innocence]

well the clip showed a doc with erays, shpwing a bullet in the ehad, and he said the ppl who got shot were no where around a gun, that they figure omeone a few miles away shoot them in the air adn they fell down adn hit them...so mythbusters, got several types of guns, and bullets, and did experments, the bullets all landed on there sides, and not far into the earth, they said a few might break the skin, but no way would they break thru the skin and the bone to get into the brain....they then decided to fire the bullets in a arc, not straight up to see if that changed it any....it did some, but they still fell on there side, so they say the myth ahd been busted that you could not get hurt from somone firing a bullet into the air, but it was also proved as there are docs with erays out there saying it does happen.

[Wicked innocence]

I did a search for mythbusters on google, and it took me to the site...think it was discovery channel...they had itlisted, but are not shwoing clips of it right now. sorry cant help....they did have a clip on shooting paint balls stight up i did not watch that one though so dont know what its asbout

[Scotsman]

Just to throw in my 2 cents worth from shooting high power rifles. Bullet leaving a weapons barrel is actually traveling at supersonic speeds. Standing in the target pit on a high power range (those targets going up and down are done by people not machinery) you have to wear hearing protection because the sonic boom of the bullet is quite loud.

Now, a sonic boom is created by a vacuum behind the object traveling through the air, which also causes the object to slow. This means that a bullet when it leaves the weapons barrel is moving much faster than the speed it would attain on it's own from gravity.

[Wicked innocence]

Oh please scotty, lets not talk about gravity lol

[Cheiron]

... yes Scotsman, I'm well aware that a modern rifle usualy have an exit speed that is around supersonic... that's around 1200 km/h...hence a sniper rifle shot will pass right through you.

so... that bullet goes pretty high up... however... eventually it's kinetic energy is turned into potential energy, it finally stalls to a velocity of zero... and then it goes down again... due to gravity (9.8 m/s/s) and especially due to air friction, any falling object has a max. velocity in free fall that can not go over around 220 km/h.... but what also makes a huge impact on velocity is shape of object, so that some objects fall with a slower max. velocity.

Hm... ever tried hail storm?... that's just ice... and I also wonder about anti-aircraft guns... that must be heavy caliber stuff.

Anyways, I perfected my instant defence system for trigger happy celebrations:

1) a wok worn inverted on your head
2) 2 diapers taped in a cross inside wok
3) a condom tied to each handle of wok and used as strap...

instant helmet for ya
_________________
Cheiron
______________________________
"Any scientist with respect for himself should start
the day by rejecting his own pet hypotheses".
(Konrad Lorenz)

"Wir müssen wissen
Wir werden wissen"
(David Hilbert)

[Flexie]

Well..All I can say is I dont want to be around when all that shooting is happening.. HA

oh and Cheiron....take a picture and post it.... I would love to see your brilliant idea.........ROTFLMAO...numbnut
_________________
- Flexie -

"Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you"

[Scotsman]

Anti-aircraft guns come in a variety of flavors. Ranging from the venerable 50 cal M2 machine gun (Ma-Duce) sometimes two or four in a single mount to 20mm vulcan cannons.

[Wicked innocence]

I want one!! someone put that on their xmas shopping list for me.

[Cheiron]

uh... a wok or an anti-aircraft gun??

(shakes head)
_________________
Cheiron
______________________________
"Any scientist with respect for himself should start
the day by rejecting his own pet hypotheses".
(Konrad Lorenz)

"Wir müssen wissen
Wir werden wissen"
(David Hilbert)

[Wicked innocence]

both!! one for protection, and one to mmm well fire lol

[Cheiron]

AHA !!!!

Lo and behold, I read in news that a danish tv-viewer has asked same question as me... but to Science program here in DK, so they set out to find out.

First they asked a dude at Institute for Physics & Astronomy at Aarhus University here.

He said well... it depends on trajectory, wind etc... just as presumed. It will typically land a couple of kilometers away or if totally windstill and straight up, in a parallel trajectory down. But how dangerous it was was not clear, scientist said, you had to ask a military guy about that.

So the journalist asked senior sergeant at Danish Army training school about it all.

Here's reply:

There is no question it is a dangerous situation if people shoot straight up into the air. He is in no doubt that you are in great danger if you get hit by a falling projectile. They fall with a speed of 50-75 m/s (180-270 km/h).

He continues: a study made in Los Angeles, USA shows that out of 118 getting hit by falling bullets, up to 32% died and 51% got serious injuries. It's actually more dangerous getting hit from above than direct where mortality is just 6 % The high mortality rate is due to that you typically get hit in the head when from above.
However.. the risk is very small, if you want to hit a person with a falling bullet you have to shoot 50-80 million shots up in air. So risk is small, but if you get hit, mortality rate is big.

Well... I dunno about that last assesment.. it could be a guy standing a km away... or the crowd in the square...
Anyways .. puzzle is solved, I think.

Wok, please... !
_________________
Cheiron
______________________________
"Any scientist with respect for himself should start
the day by rejecting his own pet hypotheses".
(Konrad Lorenz)

"Wir müssen wissen
Wir werden wissen"
(David Hilbert)

[Flexie]

Aha Cheiron you finally found the answer, interesting isnt it???...hmmmm well I will make sure to stay away from shooting bullets ....btw I wanna see the wok helmet picture
_________________
- Flexie -

"Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you"